And I think that pace and place differently at different times for each person. And it happened that it came out stressing color. This episode focuses on Helen Frankenthaler (1928–2011). MS. FRANKENTHALER: Well, not the feeling so much what's repeated in a shape in this room: leaves, chairs, shoes. But Ken did study with Clem at Black Mountain. But that was a Pollock notion of --. I mean did you get any plastic ideas, he probably --? He had us do typewriter-page sized drawings in pencil, in Cubist or Mondrian or Lipschitz idiom. Um-hm. He can't play anymore because he has this tachycardic, this cardiac thing. And I said, "That's mine.". And in a sense that sharpened my eye for abstract pictures. MS. ROSE: Well I know that newspaper headline that you showed me when you were born. MS. ROSE: Oh! And that's the difference between the striped wallpaper and a great Noland. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Well, by this time I had had Rorschach, and I don't connect my painting with Rorschach at all. It went hand in hand. What I decided, it was too much rent and too much space. It was a Rockefeller experiment with Lincoln and one of the few good experiments in progressive education. The one that's at the Metropolitan [Museum of Art, Manhattan, New York] now. I still lived at London Terrace but went there daily and that was my existence. In other words, given one's own talent for curiosity that you could explore, originate, discover from Pollock as one might, say, Picasso, or [Arshile] Gorky or [Wassily] Kandinsky in a way that de Kooning was a closed oeuvre. I think working on the floor came from Pollock. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Yes. Frankenthaler made large abstract paintings by pouring thinned paint directly onto the horizontal canvas. And Black Mountain was so depressing and nobody had a car. And he almost died with joy. And I couldn't see. I mean what, for example, would you have liked? Forms part of: Morris Louis and Morris Louis Estate papers, circa 1910s-2007, bulk 1965-2000. MS. FRANKENTHALER: History. Marjorie needed help with Latin. Nov 18, 2019 - Helen Frankenthaler's Paintings, Color Field Paintings. What was it like? I mean you remember going? The phone rang and it was Clem and he said would I have a drink with him. His only pleasures were a box at the opera, dinners at Denny Moore's. I mean you can never get a crowd like that together anymore. And they came for a drink. In interviews from 1969 and 1971, she discusses the inspiration for this radical innovation as well as other early influences. But if it did come from someone certainly it came from him no doubt. is a registered trademark of Artforum International Magazine, New York, NY. No, I'll correct that. MS. ROSE: I mean, well, I guess I mean really the drawing element disappears at a certain point. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Do you remember? Darn it and lick it both. I did much of that but I use, say, surroundings to take off on a play of drawing. I knew that what I was making was not like in general the Gestalt feeling, emphasis, of what Al, Grace, and the others were doing. When I was fifteen I started going to the Museum (of Modern Art) and a couple of galleries, mostly because of Tamayo, because he was teaching at my high school, Dalton. Then, individual paintings evoked specific responses. I mean just determined that he was going to make it and had the feelings to do it. Staff Picks: Heaven, Hearing Trumpets, and Hong Sang-soo By The Paris Review January 15, 2021. Also when Baziotes won the Carnegie (1948) there was a reproduction in the Times. MS. ROSE: When did you first see? Bohemia was where I lived and had fun and the rest was where I belonged with my family. Which I did, miserably. And his school was, it was either that or Hofmann's. It had nothing to do with art at all. But generally you don't do that. MS. ROSE: Did you know that it was god-awful? MS. FRANKENTHALER: Right. And Vytlacil was a lousy teacher. My grandmother used to say to my mother and all her grandchildren, "What do you want a new bathing suit for? It was in 1957, the end of 1957, it was painting [inaudible]. But even then it was, you know, very casual and brief and without much exchange. WorldCat record id: 220179604. Something maybe more baroque, more drawn and with some elements of realism abstracted or Surrealism or a hint of it. (Whitney Museum of American Art, New York. I tried, didn’t like it, went back to oil, then tried it again. The full face profile in every muscle. I mean according to how much water you put in it. And that's very encouraging. MS. ROSE: Dalí, yes? But I didn't know because he wasn't living in New York. Taking us to the Plaza, going to Atlantic City weekends. I would stand out on the porch and do the [Cape Cod] Bay. MS. ROSE: But the wrist really goes out of your work completely in a visible way. And although those differences may be instructive to us now, Frankenthaler was notoriously frosty about bringing gender into the artistic equation. This interview is part of the Archives' Oral History Program, started in 1958 to document the history of the visual arts in the United States, primarily through interviews with artists, historians, dealers, critics and others. Which are marvelous qualities. And for me, and I always say this, whether it's a Titian or a [Kenneth] Noland, the ones that come off work in that depth and the color perhaps it is divine and the thing that makes it work, but it is line color. [Inaudible]. I'd had all the teaching I wanted because I really was a student at Bennington and I really milked learning and that experience for a lifetime. But drawing, always all my learning had to do with drawing. But fortunately they took it, they came back. I mean for every one that I show there are many, many in shreds in garbage cans. I just couldn't think. Pittura/Panorama: Paintings by Helen Frankenthaler, 1952–1992 marks the first time that Frankenthaler’s paintings have been exhibited in Venice since her inclusion in the 1966 Biennale as part of the US Pavilion. And he was,  he'd had the Lake show too, but then it got on a serious groove, and by then he'd have,  I have the first announcement framed: Larry, Grace, Al, Goodnough and me,  he had decided in December to have me to the first group show of all of us. Clem was there with Danny. MS. ROSE: After you saw Pollock's paintings did you immediately start painting in a different way? Aesthetically, socially, in every way the de Kooning thing seemed to be much more productive, planned, admirable at the time. MS. FRANKENTHALER: No, no. Where, you know, you made that and it's great, he says. Is there also a limit on how much tape you've got? MS. ROSE: Didn't your mother take you to a doctor at all? He said he was a baseball fan which surprised me very much. He taught me how to stretch a canvas, mix mediums. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Well, what really hit me were the Pollocks. MS. ROSE: Oh, I know he actually studied with Clem. And he had great trouble disciplining. But I did not have a vision or a notion about color per se being the thing that would make me or my pictures work or operate. Looking at my paintings as if they were painted by a woman is superficial, a side issue, like looking at Klines and saying they are bohemian. ‎This episode focuses on Helen Frankenthaler (1928–2011). When I had been out of Bennington for a year, well, I had gone to Columbia [Universtiy, Manhattan, New York] to get my M.A. It all combined to push me on. And Bob called me and said sort of out of the blue, he was going to try once more and then give up. because I’m a woman. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Affable, pleasant, but non-communicative, and not the image I had of him later,  somebody drunken, wild, angry, demonstrative, wanton. Staff Picks: Heaven, Hearing Trumpets, and Hong Sang-soo By The Paris Review January 15, 2021. MS. ROSE: Did he realize what a good kid you were? And Grace had all these pictures that were going to Tibor's and she was riding high and powerful,  I don't mean successfully but willfully. I would look at a chair, know it was a chair, know it had a word, know it was a word I used all the time, and would through some garbled way say to my mother to give me the name of what that thing was. And then Horace Mann merged with Lincoln [School, New York, New York] and my mother didn't want me to stay there. MS. FRANKENTHALER: Oh, these crazy boxes. It was a juke box bar on 8th Street, filled with celluloid palm trees and five-and-ten-cent store Hawaiian decor. They have a Jewish quota. And I wanted to go to the opening, a night opening. But I had never decided not to size or prime it. MS. ROSE: No. And I'm saying all this and also saying that I throw out I can't tell you how many paintings a year. And you said, what about this in relation to that? The first show I remember seeing was the Surrealist show at the [Metropolitan] Museum. I never cried, really, by heart. He got up at dawn, came home at seven. And then Clem and I went around the show together. I saw a Dubuffet show at Pierre Matisse in the late forties and came back with a catalog to Bennington. I was then very involved through the beginning of December. Not so much thick painting around that is, you know how he was no issue about taking them not. Principles of Cubism of 1957, it 's something one is n't that I can say competitive athlete of blobs! 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FRANKENTHALER: when did you go to idea., do you feel about being a woman painter and if it 's really the is!

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